根据他向众议院监督委员会作证的文字记录，商务部长霍华德·鲁特尼克声称，他与他的亿万富翁邻居杰弗里·爱泼斯坦只有三次“无意义和无关紧要的”互动，包括他们在2005年的第一次相遇。
“我第一次见到杰弗里·爱泼斯坦时，他的工作人员敲我们的门，邀请我和妻子到隔壁喝咖啡——他就住在我们隔壁的联排别墅里，”鲁特尼克回忆道。后来，过了一段时间，我和妻子去他家喝咖啡。就在隔壁8到10步远的地方。”
Lutnick上周在委员会面前闭门作证，这是特朗普内阁第一位面对委员会调查爱泼斯坦的问题的官员。该委员会周三公布了鲁特尼克的证词副本。
在2012年访问爱泼斯坦的私人岛屿时，鲁特尼克声称爱泼斯坦的工作人员“发现了我家人的度假计划”，并在他不知情的情况下安排了这次访问。
“然而，我妻子明确表示，我们有一个大约12人以上的大型旅行团，如果我们要来，我们会带上所有人。根据文字记录，我的六口之家和另一个六口之家吃了一顿简短、无意义、无关紧要的午餐，然后就离开了。
他告诉委员会调查人员，2012年圣诞节前，除了他在小圣詹姆斯的私人岛屿，他从未去过爱泼斯坦的任何房产。
"我和我的妻子和我的四个孩子，我的朋友-一对夫妇和他们的四个孩子-以及工作人员和船上的工作人员一起吃午饭，"鲁特尼克作证说。“所以大概有15、16个人去吃午饭了。我们坐在外面，吃午饭。太无聊了。我们离开了。”
鲁特尼克说，在岛上没有看到任何年轻女性或女孩。
在后来的采访中，鲁特尼克对有人说他长得像爱泼斯坦在岛上的一个房间里墙上的面具表示怀疑。根据爱泼斯坦透明法案，这些面具的照片是司法部公布的材料之一。
“你一定是在跟我开玩笑。这是我听过的最荒谬可笑的事情，”鲁特尼克回应道。“什么，一个秃头男人?我有头发。看啊。我的意思是，我没有很多，但至少我有一些。那绝不是我。那是胡说八道。”
鲁特尼克还坚持他去年发表的言论，即在他们第一次相遇后，他与爱泼斯坦保持距离。
“在这些有限的互动中，我从未目睹任何行为，更不用说我们后来意识到的那种非法行为，”他说，根据文字记录。“在我们第一次互动后，我和妻子讨论过，我不会与那个人建立私人或职业关系。”
Lutnick在委员会前的采访记录持续了4个多小时。唐纳德·特朗普总统的名字在剧本中出现了17次。
尽管民主党人不断质疑，但鲁特尼克拒绝回答他和特朗普总统是否在总统任期内谈论过爱泼斯坦。
“我不会讨论我与总统的谈话，但你不应该这样或那样看待它，”鲁特尼克作证说。“我只是不打算对此进行任何讨论。但请不要在谈话中采取这种或那种方式。”
鲁特尼克表示，他不知道特朗普与爱泼斯坦的友谊。
鲁特尼克说，他不记得在他被提名为商务部长期间，他自己与爱泼斯坦的关系是否被提起过。
“我不记得了，不记得了，”他说。
Lutnick回忆说，有一次在纽约市洛克菲勒研究所的一次筹款活动上，他遇到了爱泼斯坦的合伙人Ghislaine Maxwell，他现在正在服刑20年，他告诉调查人员这也是“毫无意义和无关紧要的”
Lutnick还表示，他从未因与Epstein或Maxwell有关的调查而受到当局的质疑。
“没有，”他回答。
当被问及是否知道爱泼斯坦和麦克斯韦尔犯下的虐待行为时，鲁特尼克反复回答“不”。
Lutnick called interactions with Epstein 'meaningless and inconsequential': Transcript
Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick claimed that he only had three "meaningless and inconsequential" interactions with his billionaire neighbor Jeffrey Epstein, including their first encounter in 2005, according to a transcript of his testimony to the House Oversight Committee.
"I first met Jeffrey Epstein when his staff knocked on our door and invited my wife and I to come next door for coffee to -- he lived in the townhouse adjacent to ours,"Lutnick recalled."And then, sometime later, my wife and I went over to his house for coffee. It would be literally 8 or 10 steps next door."
Lutnick testified behind closed doorsbefore the committee last week-- the first Trump cabinet official to face questions as part of the committee's probe into Epstein. The committee released transcripts of Lutnick's testimony on Wednesday.
Addressing his visit to Epstein's private island in 2012, Lutnick claimed that Epstein's staff "discovered my family's vacation plans" and arranged the visit without his knowledge.
"My wife made clear, however, that we had a large traveling party of approximately 12-plus people, and if we were to come, it would be with everyone. My family of six and another family of six, had a brief, meaningless, and inconsequential lunch and then left," Lutnick said, according to the transcript.
He told committee investigators that he never visited any of Epstein's properties other than his private island at Little St. James just before Christmas in 2012.
"I went for lunch with my wife and my four children, my friends -- a couple and their four children -- and staff and boat staff," Lutnick testified. "So it was probably 15, 16 people went for lunch. We sat outside, had lunch. It was boring. We left."
Lutnick said did not see any young women or girls on the island.
Later in the interview, Lutnick expressed incredulity at the suggestion that he resembled one of the masks photographed on the wall in a room at Epstein's estate on the island. Photographs of the masks were among the materials released by the Justice Department following the Epstein Transparency Act.
"You've got to be kidding me. That is the most ridiculous and absurd thing I've ever heard," Lutnick responded. "What, a bald man? I have hair. Look. I mean, I don't have many, but at least I have some. That is not remotely me. That's nonsense."
Lutnick also stood by remarks he made last year that he distanced himself from Epstein after their first encounter.
"At no time during these limited interactions did I witness any conduct, let alone the type of illegal conduct of which we have since become aware," he said, according to the transcript. "After our first interaction, my wife and I discussed that I would not establish a personal nor professional relationship with that individual."
Lutnick's transcribed interview before the commitee lasted just over 4 hours. President Donald Trump's name appears 17 times in thetranscript.
Despite persistent questioning from Democrats, Lutnick refused to address whether he and President Trump had spoken about Epstein during his presidency.
"I'm not going to discuss conversations I had with the president, but you shouldn't take it one way or the other," Lutnick testified. "I'm just not going to have any discussion on it. But please don't take from that one way or the other with respect to the conversation."
Lutnick said he was not aware of Trump's friendship with Epstein.
Lutnick said he could not recall if his own relationship with Epstein was brought up during his nomination to be commerce secretary.
"I don't remember that, no," he said.
Lutnick recalled meeting Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell -- who's now serving a 20-year prison sentence -- one time at a Rockefeller Institute fundraiser in New York City -- telling investigators it was also "meaningless and inconsequential."
Lutnick also said he was never questioned by authorities in connection with an investigation related to Epstein or Maxwell.
"No," he answered.
Lutnick repeatedly answered "no" when asked if he was aware about the abuse Epstein and Maxwell were committing.
